On Wed 14 Jul 2004 (15:17 +0200), Jaap O Mark wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jul 2004, Jaap O Mark wrote:
Denk dat providers eerder geen zin hebben om hier (onnodig) tijd & resources in te steken, laat staan discussies met de klant. Het lijkt met niet dat je er echt klanten mee WINT.
Ik denk dat XS4ALL daar heel anders over denkt. Ik weet vrij zeker dat XS4ALL behoorlijk wat klanten te danken heeft aan haar opstelling in dit soort zaken (en het daarmee gepaard gaande imago).
Daar heb je gelijk in, echter kwam dit natuurlijk door de bijbehorende rechtzaak & publiciteit. Met de slogan 'wij geven geen adresgegevens aan derden zonder gerechtelijk bevel' alleen win je niet veel klanten. XS4ALL hield/houdt ook voet bij stuk, waar andere providers dit soms niet doen.
Whether an ISP advertiese it or not, it has a legal duty to not give NAW out without sound legal grounds. It's my understanding that short of a court order, an ISP would be taking a serious legal risk in volunteering NAW. Simply ignoring the complaints also carries a possible risk that an ISP could be found culpable for not having take action. Demon currently sends a form to the complainer asking them to give full details of the copyright ownership etc. and, at the same time, we send the customer a warning that there has been a complaint and point out that our AV says they must not use their connectivity for illegal purposes. However, I don't think we've ever had a completed form back from a complainer (Paramount for a long time sent these messages out with an email address that bounced). If we did receive one, we would require the customer to send us a written undertaking to remove the disputed material, or an explanation of why the complaint is unfounded, otherwise they risk being diconnected. It's our belief that this is sufficient to show that we have acted in a reasonable and proper manner. We would not give NAW without an signed order from a rechter or a change in the Privacy Wet. I suppose that if BREIN or Disney or whomever were to file a civil suit, they would have no trouble getting such an order and I can't see we'd have any choice but to comply. But a request for those details so they could prepare such an lawsuit would be refused. However, I would strongly advise every ISP to get their own legal advice on this subject, the potential financial risks of getting it wrong are not insubstantial and a group of techies is not the best place to ensure you've minimised those risks. -- Jim Segrave jes at nl.demon.net